Somethings irk me. This is one of them.
My dear institute has been facing an accomodation problem for the graduate students. Right now there is absolutely no space in the hostels for the new students that will join this academic year. In fact of the ones that joined last year some of them are still living in the colony flats. Most are still sharing rooms.
It is not as if this problem was not forseen. Surely they would have thought of this when they were taking students last year. What would the solution to that be? Take less students which they obviuosly did not do or build a new hostel of course.
How long does it take to make a new building? There was a four storey building in Colaba that fell last May. Now it has been rebuilt and is functioning normally in less than a year. Keeping that in mind, you need a maximum of one year to build a four storied new hostel. Given that this problem was foreseen last year, why has that new hostel building not been built?
Even the construction work on the new hostel has not begun but we hear that the plans have been approved. Anyways, the fact remains that there is no new hostel yet.
All paths now closed to them, what do the power-that-be decide to do? They take their ire out on the students since they are the most expendable commodity here. They ask the sixth year students to leave with a notice of two months. Of course they have been provided accomodation in a place far away from here which would take at least two hours commuting everyday and commuting a city like bombay is hell.
I agree that our having an accomodation so close to campus is a nice thing and it is a luxury that not every grad student in the world enjoys. All I am saying that it would have been better if the students had beeen given some sort of warning that they will have to leave so that they could have tried to finish by the stipulated time. But that sadly did not happen.
If they do this next year it would be justified as the students would have had enough warning to at least try to finish things on time. I would have not have any problem in that.
But who am I anyways? Just a student and I don't have any say in this.
They have the impression as if we like to stay in this rotten place and that we actually enjoy it. We don't. Most of us would like to leave right now if possible but it is our bosses that don't let us go. "finish this and that and then we will see", he says.
Of course that brings us to issues like if a project fails and the student actually spends a long time on a Ph.D., then whose reponsibility is it? The student or the P.I.'s but that deserves an entire post altogether.
No I don't have any friends who have been affected by this decision for whom I am writing this and no, my real world alter ego will not subscribe to any of this if you ask her. Sorry but yes she is chicken that ways. It just the indignation of it that rankles. No this is not an attempt to incite students. I know that they have done whatever was possible. This is just an attempt to put my point of view across. That's all.
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32 comments:
Well...TIFR is making students scapegoat for their shortsights! As such, no one wants to stay a single day more than what is required and I won't definitely stay any longer when I will complete my PhD. However, its really unfortunate that they are asking those to stay away who are in need of Institute facilties the most! There was some proposal of sharing in the institute which is much better instead of shifting to Anushaktinagar!
I also got the "love letter", but since I had some special reasons, I also wrote back a "love letter" explaining that I am in 5th year of my PhD now and their love letter does not apply to me!
well, it's not just one one yr since they've been talking abt making another hostel... the space problem has been there since a long time and of course it has been intensifying steadily. we first heard abt this "new hostel building coming up in another couple of yrs" at least four yr back!! and our seniors told us that this has been going on since many yrs...
so if they really wanted to do this, they would've done that by now... but yeah, we r just students, and we r supposed to be grateful that we get accomodation in a city like ours where it is so difficult and expensive to do so on our own!!
That's true. They had been taking students in large batches starting from my batch (I'm a fifth year). Within two years the situation in the hostel became bad. Still the authorities did not do anything. Last two years have been a total disaster. Still many students are staying in flats (it's a different point that some of them are enjoying it) and people are still sharing accomodation. There is even a crunch for office space. The first year and second year students in Maths don't even have a decent room which they can call their office! Now who is responsible for this space crunch? And who is suffering?
And we have to "understand" "their" helplessness in this?
Sorry for the english, I'm not fifth year, I'm a fifth year student! :)
Q:How do you put an elephant inside a fridge?
A:Open the door, put the elephant inside, close the door.
Q:How do you put a camel inside the fridge?
A:Open the door, take the elephant out, put the camel in, close the door.
etc. etc.
Q:How do you put a 1st year student into Brahmagupta/Patanjali?
A:......
Q:How many refrigerators are there in the campus?
A:.......
Q:How big is the director's refrigerator?
A:.......
@shanta:
It is not their fault. Scapegoats are made of those, who are the weakest elements..and in our insti. we are the weakest..have to accept. As far as we distinguish a fifth year std. with a sixth year one, this problem is going to be there.
@samudrika:
Its not only with the accomodation, but there intake plans are so rediculously planned...ask physics guys...how many of them have to adjust their career plans, leave the institute for not getting the right thing....on the other hand there are depts. who are worried of having no new student for them for years, now....
And I totally disagree with the statement saying, it is OK from next year, when stds. will have at least one year to wind up there work...I don't think we are doing hamali on Dadar station...but research and you can't guess when you will have a problem and/or a result...Otherwise, while joining the insti. we have a goal of 5 yrs...what happens then? aren't we enough instructed?
A well-defined period for scholl does exist in abroad (USA:4 - 5 yrs), EU (3 yrs), but then the guides there are professional enough to take care of you, before they plan their flying ceremonies all over the world for subatics...
it is reported that in the meeting with 6th year students the diro said something to the effect that "we know its a wrong decision but someone has to make a sacrifice and it is you who have to make that sacrifice'
sounds a little like the story of the wolf and the lamb driking water by the river, or in modren times, like the israeli occupation of palestine or bush's invasion of iraq. but maybe bush is more intelligent.
Every decision requires a detailed explanation. Did the director bother to explain in detail why the institute failed to construct a new hostel, or is it that once you are higher up in the tree you don't have to give any explanation for wanting to hack at the lower end.
In any case people would be glad to be out of this place sooner than later. When the sudden exodus starts.... a lot of students outside may be dying to join TIFR, but will they be of the same standard as the ones the director is so anxious to push out?
i guess i wont be adding anything new to what has been already been said here-but still like others i feel like expresisng myself-
have students actually written any serious letter to autorities or are they too scared becasue its their sixth year and can't make people around unhappy-
as vivek said-they have definitely incerased the intake of students in last five years-the year i joined (1999) infact there were quite a few empty rooms even after everybody in our batch got single rooms
and our physics batch was a large batch-which is suppose to have given inspiration to authorities to continue to take large batches-
and by 2001 there was accomodation problem-
and they have not done anything about it
it is not that students are taking longer than before-so why should they alone be penalised-
whole system has got so used to the six year time line(atleast in theoretical physics) that it really requires special efforts more from the supervisor than the student to finish in 5 years-
are the supervisors made accounatble and being questioned as to how they kept track of the progress of the student -they themselevs are so used to their students finishing in 6 years that they dont know how to make it 5
also if u want student to finish in 5 , then his/her work should be over in 4 and half for him/her to be able to apply-i doubt if most supervisors realise that
anyway-i guess everybody knows it all
cheers:)
sumedha
Huh, I got a solution. Just kick the junk in the buildings like Parashara out:P
@shanta, vivek, anon's, fifth yearite
I agree with whatever you say except for the attacks on the Diro. I am sure that his situation is strained and he is doing the best he can under the circumstances.
@Anon2
Quality of students that they will push out! Hmmm..I wonder how we can judge that. Maybe we can have accomodation based on number of papers that a student has. I am being frivolous here!
@sumedha
Thank you for visiting! do come by more often.
@P.P.
Good to see you again. Welcome back.
@anon1:
Abe sacrifice dene wala decide karta hain lene wala nahi....iss tarique se to kasaai bhi murge se yahi kahta hoga....somebody has to sacrifice...better it is you...:D
Mujhe nahi pata tha diro ka sense of humor itna reach hain!
Hi guys, perhaps you already know this, but the situation for post-docs is worse. I know one postdoc in Physics who has been staying in Colaba in a very small room paying about 1/3 of his salary on the room rent. Some postdocs are coolly told that they could not be invited because there is no accommodation for them.
Institute has to take some quick steps as soon as possible and kicking the 5'th-6'th year students out is not a reasonable step to take. As Shanta pointed out, they are the ones who need to use the facilities more. Perhaps the first year students could stay out and their classes could be held near their accommodation. Will the faculty members be ready to go there twice a week to teach?
@shripad
I agree that the whole thing is a mess. I cant imagine how many good post-docs the insti loses out on becuase there is no accomodation.
Not only post-docs even the MSc. most of them are from out of town. The latest news is that even the MSc's have been asked to vacate the flats that they had been given(to stay over night in case there their experiment runs overnight). they also have to vacate by July.
p.s. thank you for coming by.
@pp
you raise a valid point.
If we can have a GBM for a bloody rope, why can we not have one to discuss this important issue? everyone must be aware of what is happening because this affects all of us. what is happening with the sixth years will happen with us next year too. the student committee must take a stand!
@PP
thanks you so much for ur generous donation.. we r all so obliged!!
and here's a suggestion for u.. why don't u volunteer for the chairperson job, get a "sane" hostel committee and earn everybody's confidence and respect. we give u one full yr to do this.
now coming back to the issue in question, the 6th yr students have written a letter to the dean and we all want to wait to see their response before we decide our course of action. hopefully we'll get to know in the next few days abt the dean's reply.
and we are going to have a GBM in a few days.
@anonymous "another fifth-yearite":
There has to be a reason for everything.
To the best of my knowledge, PP has declined the offer of being chairman more than once in the past, and his reason for donating just Re.0.01 this time is that he will not ask the hostel for a single penny for any activity he organizes in the future, even if the coffers of the hostel committee are overflowing, given the response from the hostel committee after he donated a fair bit of money last time. And it is quite shameful the way the hostel chairman refused to be flexible enough to allocate a bit more money to the chess club based on its actual needs for one-time expenditure. The simultaneous exhibition they arranged here is unprecedented, and they could have done much more in this one year if they did not have constant funding worries.
Whoever you are, if you don't wish to put your name or even a pseudonym here, that's fine. I will do the same too. But why don't you personally talk to PP and find out how disappointing his experience in dealing with his former friend Snooty was, instead of going by biased second-hand views? He has good reason to be disenchanted. (By the way, you have not managed to say a single thing in defence of the existing hostel committee.)
As for the committee that should deal with such a crisis, I believe during the struggle for the schol-hike a special committee of students was formed. The hostel committee does not necessarily have a role here. That is a procedure with a precedent, unless the hostel committee persists with its policy of doing unprecedented things in the goofiest way possible. They can be forgiven for their mistakes, as even the chairman had no prior experience on any hostel committee and evidently did not know what was accepted procedure, including who is supposed to sign the cheques.
All this might seem irrelevant on this blog topic, but it should help people decide what kind of committee to form to deal with the current crisis.
-a friend of PP
PP and the hostel committee gang, please take you inter-gang rivalry elsewhere. This is a place for serious discussion by serious people on serious matters.
As some commentators said, TIFR has increased the number of students in the last few years. But this might be part of a "plan". There is a strong opposition in the colony about the new hostel (water, open spaces, number of people, etc). When the decision of making the new hostel was taken several years ago there was not urgent need for it. The new hostel was something for the MSc program, which was not clear it would become a reality. Now, if you take many students for several years, then a crisis comes up: No space in the hostel any more. So the new hostel has to be built, and people cannot say anything, since TIFR is asking students in the 6th last years to vacate, something never heard of. So perhaps the bigger batches were part of a plan to remove all opposition to the new hostel.
PP, u moron, why do u waste ur time bugging these hostel committee morons.... life mein aur kaam nahin hai kya?
@everyone
Pretty much everything that can be said has been said and every angle has been explored. Since actions speak louder than words, may we have some of the former now?
@Samudrika: How can you conclude that every angle has been explored.
I have something to say......
Authorities are not fool, they have a clue that not all students will stand united against their proposal, and hence they can impose whatever they want. TIFR is an academic + research institute, and authorities could not stop entering a lagre fraction of non-academic staff from entering into Colaba campus, and lost a legal case. How efficient the defending lawyer would have been, who could not present a simple case to the judiciary. Why should a poen, who has 9 to 5 job (minus one and half hours of lunch time and several other office hours to waste) should stay in Colaba campus? Because he is "permanent" and Colaba campus is beautiful?
Students could united in Schol Hike movement four years before, because it was everyones concern. There might be some second or third yearites, who think they will finish PhD in five years, so why should they co-operate with their seniors (well authories are happy to know that).
And then this "sacrifice"... for what? Because, there is no other solution! How do we know that authories have made serious attempts to find solutions. I have reasons to doubt because, I have not seen new hostel building yet, not even its foundtion stone!
We were told that now a days, students are taking more time to finish PhD and that's why the problem. This is very untrue. If you conduct an statistical study, conclusions will be opposite. How can authorieis try to hide everything by making such irresponsible comments, and then why should poor students co-opertate with such non-transparent authorities.
As an outsider, I do not have much right to say. Only thing is that it would somehow make me happy if students, at least, make their voice loud, before performing the well-planned force "ritual" of sacrifice.
@amit
i agree with u.. in such a huge campus with so many buildings, there r only 2 for the students, and one for the post-docs... tifr is what it is because we slog day and night... not saying that the other employees r not imp, but as u said, they don't need to be on the campus as much as the students do.. i didn't kow abt this court case, though..
i do hope that students unite again (at least a majority of us..).. irrespective of whether we r going to finish within 6 yrs or not..
what about the doctor who stays on campus and routinely comes nearly an hour late to work?
@PP:
Not me, so drop option (d).
"Comment moderation has been enabled. All comments must be approved by the blog author."
-- This blog is against free speech. Just as much as the authorities you people are supposedly protesting against.
after going thru some of these commnts on this post, a few qs...
when is gbm? what is this rope? why is someone donating 1 paisa? and why is anyone offring such a person the post of chairman? isn't there going to be any election or are you going to plant your favourites into the posts
@pp
Truly what will a GBM accomplish other than allowing everyone to know about the issue at hand? there will a few heated conversations.
Are we going to agitate? Are we going to protest? Are we going to put our careers on the line?
I think no one will.
@PP
I love your sentiments but I ask you this directly. Will you lead the protest? or will you just discuss it in the comments section of a blog that no one reads?
I tell you now darling - the most that will happen is that hostel comm will send a letter to the powers-that-be.
I agree that this isssue is uber-important but pp no one is sufficiently angry to do anything about it. they are either too selfish or too dense to realise that it will affect them too.
its been more than a week since the day of the love-letters but what has been done? what concrete action has been taken?
@pp
PP, my precious, how could you ever think that I was trying to provoke you?
Only time will tell what is the result of our actions or in this case rather inaction. I predict that the repurcussions will be huge and they will be negative.
I do not know this Lord Snooty chap and neither do I know who "another fifth yearite" is. So my apologies but I can't convey your love to them.
I hope to see you at this GBM and hope that you are able to voice your opinion. My prayers are with you that you can accomplish this feat.
@PP
i thought u were not going to talk abt issues like "silly tug-of-war ropes" or "ludo clubs" and only discuss the issue in question here.. what happened to that declaration?
(Btw, correct me if i m wrong, but as far as i can remember, the long mails abt the ropes and clubs in question have been sent from ur account only.. and the meeting to discuss these issues was called because U were not ready to trust that UR precious money is safe in the hands of the hostel committee which was elected by the students.. whoever were present at that GBM)
anyways, that's not the point. i hope by now u know when the GBM is.. tues, 9:00 pm. pls do grace all of us with ur presence. just one humble suggestion.. pls do not display ur shouting skills again. we've had enough of that. let us try to sit down peacefully and discuss.
another humble request: pls try to be there during the election of the new committee.. if u r not interested in contributing towards the formation of the new committee, then i don't think u should have any right to condemn their each and every action.
@PP:
PP, my precious, my darling, not you but I will have the last word, and the last laugh. It is my privilege.
Lord Snooty
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